Education is a great way to end your career

Wil Gooskens studied Toegepaste Huishoudwetenschappen in Deventer from 1979 to 1983. “That study programme had existed for just one year,” Wil says. “There was Groothuishouding, Kleinhuishouding, and Milieukunde (Environmental Studies). The funny thing is little has changed; Environmental Studies is now called sustainability.”

Kleinhuishouding?!

“That was about, for example, providing information to women in rural areas. The study programme was quite focused on women at the time anyway.”

How did you end up there?

“I’d started the Civiele Diensten (Housekeeping Services) programme at mbo level, which was also new. It was a pilot in Eindhoven, and they didn’t actually know what exactly to teach. I found it too easy and wanted to continue studying. There were two options in this discipline at the time: Diedenoort in Wageningen and Hogeschool Deventer, which is Saxion now. It was called Nieuw Rollecate at the time.”

What has really changed in the facility profession?

“Nothing, really, I thought when I was in the car on my way here this morning. But please don’t write it down like that; it’s not true of course. It’s still a people-oriented profession – that hasn’t changed, but the study programme now focuses less on subject matter. It is mainly about skills and professional development, which is a good thing! Innovation is important; that is what has always fascinated me most about this profession. Organising things more intelligently. Mainly more cost-effectively, which is what I have to say.

A lot is going on, I mean, in the field of technology, the emergence of AI?

“That’s right,” Wil acknowledges, “and students don’t exclusively start their studies here (at BUas, ed.) for management positions; they are also – or primarily – interested in innovation. You see that in support staff positions in particular; just look at the innovation centres that you see at more and more businesses. How can you provide the same service with fewer people? For it is all about money of course. Money is number 1 in all selections. Sustainability also plays a role if it sells.”

So, management and innovation?

“The cool thing is experiencing the profession from various perspectives. I’ve worked for service providers, clients, and in education. I’ve seen all sides of it, and that’s what I always tell students: try to get as many perspectives as you can. And education is a great way to end your career. Practitioners are great at explaining things, and that’s something BUas is really good at.”

Erm, Inge? Is education a good way to end a career...!?

“Ha! Ha! I’m just starting on the other side. The advantage is that – because I’m still young – I have a very good connection with the students. I did not start teaching straight after graduating... .”

Wil: “You just advanced your career faster!” 

Inge: “In about six years from being an intern at PVH - Tommy Hilfiger & Calvin Klein HQ in Amsterdam to the position of Facility Manager, via a number of different positions.”

So it was a match? The study programme? How did that happen?

“I first did an mbo programme in Roosendaal. International Business Studies. Since I was 16 I had only been taught in English. I wanted to do something with events, and when visiting an open day at NHTV (now BUas, ed.) I was enthused about the Facility Management programme at once. I started in 2013; I found the first year tough. Finance, Economics; there were many knowledge subjects.”

Were you also taught by Wil?

“For sure. Operations Management, at any rate!”

Wil: “I’ve taught all the subjects more or less in those 20 years, except for languages and Finance.”

Inge: “We were located at Sibeliuslaan at the time. I thought that was a very nice place to attend classes. And everybody knew one another a bit. Lectures from those days – who still teach here and so, are my colleagues now – know exactly who I am!”

You did a master’s programme in Madrid? In Events, Protocol and Business Tourism. Fits nicely with BUas!

“Yes, I thought if I can move from mbo to hbo, perhaps a master’s degree would also be possible for me. I actually intended to stay in Madrid, but then I was offered a job at the company in which I started as an intern in Amsterdam. When I heard there was a job opening at BUas, I started to consider the possibility. Teaching fits me, I can explain things well, and take people along in the process. And having the opportunity to go back to my roots in Brabant was what I liked very much.”

Wil: “We’ve pretty much walked the same path. From mbo to hbo to master’s – that’s what I also did, in Real Estate – go back to our roots as well as teach!”

Can you tell something nice about Wil’s classes?

“Packed with knowledge, the lessons and Wil himself! I’m quite a first-class neurotic. I store everything, literally. Lessons, PowerPoints, I’ve kept everything. During my work placements and graduation project, I dug it all out again and was able to use it to put together a good presentation myself.”

Wil: “Funny that you thought my lessons were chock-full of theory. I was not particularly partial to that. It was an eye-opener for me to discover that theory is actually useful. I thought it was all difficult and a load of nonsense. But theory is really nothing more than practice. You fall flat on your face a few times and then think: let’s go back to the models. Plan – do – check – act. If you use that, the theory suddenly makes sense.”

Inge: “I still use that. I still look back at the teaching material I was provided at the time, the basics that is. But because I’ve now worked with it in practice, I can offer it more as an integrated whole. I still remember very well that a topic like sustainability was really a separate course in my days, literally. It was upcoming and very special. It now runs through all modules, study programmes and academies at  BUas. It is much more integrated into education. Unfortunately, this is not always the case in practice. To be honest, that still depends a bit on funding. In Amsterdam, I was given the space to innovate.”

Wil: “It’s wonderful to be given that space. In our profession, you support the core business. The trick is to move with the opportunities and threats. The most frustrating thing for me is that, after so many years, we still have to explain what Facility Management is. Strange, but it’s our own fault. We are the silent force in the background. You only realise you need us when it’s too late – sometimes too late.”

Inge: “It’s a difficult profession, I mean the combination of people, practice and technology. You should have it all in you.”

Wil: “Research has been conducted among alumni and 65% still works in the facility industry after five years. I think that’s quite remarkable because students rarely opt for this study programme deliberately. Apparently, we have been able to show the love and meaning of the profession in those four years that students spend here!”

Meaningful at any rate; you always have to deal with a building that must be maintained? And there is a growing focus on a safe and healthy workplace.

Inge, you teach that. What do you do differently now?

“The lessons are different anyway because the students are different. More open, you know sooner what problems they encounter. We could learn a lot from this generation on that point. I sound really old now, don’t I? Furthermore, I’m mostly very pragmatic in my lessons. If a certain explanation doesn’t work, I start from a different angle to see if that works.”

Do you recognise that Wil, or were your more straightforward?

“I was 46 when I started teaching, so yes... But you keep learning as a lecturer. You keep going back to that bit of theory and start doing things differently.”

Inge: “I’m genuinely impressed by how Wil keeps his knowledge up to date. I say this to my colleagues time and time again.”

How do you do that, Wil? 

“Keeping up with the literature, reading the IFMA trade journal, networking a lot. But above all, supervising students on placement and students doing their graduation project. I enjoy visiting students, but I enjoy looking at how things work at such a company. I want to know everything!”

And you’re retiring soon. Proud?

“If I look at where students have all found jobs, yes! I don’t do social media and all that nonsense, but I do follow LinkedIn. And then I see quick careers, like Inge’s.”

And how is BUas to proceed from here?

Inge: “I’ve been thinking about last year’s Capstone project all through this interview. It was about the fact that we should actually have a device with which we can retrieve somebody’s knowledge, through glasses or something like that. I want such glasses for Wil! And that I will then be able to look back at his knowledge and abilities. I can only hope that I can build up a fraction of what he knows during my time here, so I can grow as much as he has grown!”

Wil: “You’re sure to succeed!”

To me: “When Inge sets her mind to something, she goes for it. Pure willpower.”   Wil(’s)power 😉

Interview: Maaike Dukker-’t Hart